Exegesis Volume 5 Issue #44

From: Juan Revilla
Subject: Re: Astrology and the Stars (and other bodies)

From: Janice & Dennis
Subject: astrohistorical research source

Subject: Re: Exegesis Digest V5 #4

Exegesis Digest Thu, 10 Aug 2000

Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 08:34:36 -0600
From: Juan Revilla
To: Exegesis
Subject: Re: Astrology and the Stars (and other bodies)

Jane Axtell wrote:

 > I could produce many pages of such instances but these may be enough to
 > indicate that astrologers relate to the visible and invisible sky through
 > direct experience in preseent time.

But this to me is unrelated to the practice of astrology. Consider the following:

1-) It is not possible to experience 30 degrees sharp of fire next to 30 degrees sharp of water next to 30 degrees sharp of anything anywhere in the sky.

2-) It is not possible to experience a Moon/Venus exact conjunction appearing in the chart when in the sky they may be separated by 10 or 12 degrees.

3-) Normally (exceptions noted) astrologers work with natal or any other type of radical "charts", so it is impossible to experience "out there" any event, transits included, happening in the chart, because the chart is not an organic entity being subject to planetary influences or whatever: it represents a very artificial fleeting instant of time that no longer exists. Transits, technically speaking, happen to charts, not to people, nor plants, nor animals.

4-) Unless you live in a very flat area or at the beach, the astronomical horizon used by astrology is a mathematical abstraction that can be far from representing the "rising" and "setting" of planets. Any hill or mountain changes the experiential definition of "horizon".

5-) It is completely impossible to experience anything happening below the horizon, unless we are speaking of very subjective non-physical perceptions which cannot be discussed.

6-) It is common to "sense" the time when an *astrological* planet is on the ascendant or descendant, but this refers to the intersection of coordinates and abstract geometrical planes, not to events in the sky. By the same token, a person experiences very powerfully a Moon/Pluto conjunction that only seldom corresponds approximately to something happening in the sky (they are often separated by more than 20 degrees even though the conjunction may be exact in the chart).

7-) The real angular distance of objects in the celestial sphere is never considered in astrology. You work with discrete coordinates always, be them latitude or longitude or declination or right ascension, what is interpreted is events happening between coordinates.

8-) All progressions and directions do not correspond to anything real happening "out there".

9-) With very few exceptions astrologers never work with "real" topocentric positions (a 1-degree difference in the case of the Moon).

When people say that astrology in general, or astrologers, do relate to what happens in the sky, to the real stars or planets "appearing" out there (at night at least, if its not cloudy or hilly or below the horizon), this is immediately contradicted by what they do when they practice their astrology. The above points are the reasons why I say this. I would appreciate any clarification of any of those pints.



Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 18:32:22 +1200
From: Janice & Dennis
To: Exegesis
Subject: astrohistorical research source

I happened upon the website of Lester Ness, a classicist historian who has compiled an extensive list of books and articles reporting the results of historical research in astrology. The following example, relevant to recent discussion in this list, caught my eye:

"Rochberg-Halton, Francesca, "New Evidence for the History of Astrology," Journal of Near Eastern Studies 43 (1984): pages 115-140 {The text of an Achaemenian period tablet BM36746 and an explanation of how it bridges gap between mesopotamian and Greek astrology. Very important! Rochberg- Halton has done path- breaking research in recent years on Mesopotamian scientific astrology, particularly with practices hitherto known only in Hellenistic versions.}"

This is at http://ezinfo.ucs.indiana.edu/~lness/guide.htm and his home page (http://php.ucs.indiana.edu/~lness/ ) links to "Astrology and Judaism in Late Antiquity : the doctoral dissertation of Lester Ness, divided into separate chapters". It also links to his draft translation of Bouche-Leclerc's late 19th century "Greek Astrology", which is copyright but signalled as available by negotiation with the author for reproduction. The 8 chapters are available via separate links for examination.

The author is currently at a university in China, but can be contacted via his homepage link.

Dennis Frank


Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 23:52:00 -0500
Subject: Re: Exegesis Digest V5 #4

 > Exegesis Digest Thu, 03 Aug 2000 Volume 5 Issue 43

 > Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 16:32:39 EDT
 > From: StarTiming
 > To: exegesis
 > Subject: Astrology and the Stars (and other bodies)
 > ----------------------------------------------------------------------

 > Private "amateur" astrologers have told me in their libraries that
 > they directly perceive the passages of the celestial bodies, indoors
 > or out.

 > Personal friends in practice for decades have learned to see charts in
 > the heavens and recognize emotional seasons from the visible condition
 > of the moon.

 > I have been stunned into electrified silence by the passage of a
 > galactic arm directly overhead.

Rapt listeners to campfire ghost stories have shuddered.. in the presence of what? A mere notion?

Although the tale can be more convincing. The story-teller points to the great rock nearby and proceeds to reveal the valiant & tragic mystery of its past. The rock comes alive -- with ghosts who are grounded.

This reflects the Neptunian side of things, like astrology. That rock can be a planet or asteroid. Distance does not matter. The ghosts can be stars.

Great story-tellers can manifest miracles, changing things physically by the application of completely non-physical intangibles more subtle even than ideas. Hence religion.

What you, Jane, have described are individual believers moving deeper into their capacity for belief, and how they then entrain others similarly inclined to follow in their soft footsteps.

{Why not begin with the rising or setting of the Sun rather than Venus?}

We have two eyes. Each royal. With one we see the Man In The Moon floating and laughing above the path among the trees like a jolly jaune uncle on a magic carpet; with the other we see Mare Imbrium, and Tycho white-rayed, stark, and crisper in a telescope. But often one eye takes control of the other so instead of having an interesting pair of binoculars we have both eyes behind the same monocle.

Binoculars are interesting because though lenses may argue and jostle, they can make up again, and make out: Out, the new eye. Who just might grow up to become King -- Synthesis (the IIIrd).

(Will he sing a new world into being with new theories? Will whole old oases hold him in their psalms?)

Yet we can study a field of wheat waving in the wind and perceive many different things by attending to the phenomenon with different senses. What the ear hears in whispers is a different story from what the eye might see as an adventuring sea, or the nose smell as bread-to-be. And the mind.. Ah, the mind and it's intellect can engender a more remarkable approach. At least in its own estimation, if coy imaginings can be checked.

This is the crux of the matter: object perceived, and what we make of it. Every object is the Lernaean Hydra, despite the occasional glamour of its appearances.

How many fingers am I holding up?

(Testing that shades into telepathy).

Can someone with no knowledge of astrology, time, and what's in the sky have any perception of Mercury's influence when rising? Would an observer, with a similar lack of contagion, note changes in the subject during such an event? If so, how would s/he describe them?

What you have described are individual believers moving deeper into their capacity for belief. But why do they seem so quiet? Private. Hiding, perhaps, from statistics and the white eye of Tycho?

Has anyone here scrutinized the claims of The Magi Society?



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