|Exegesis Volume 4 Issue #17
Exegesis Digest Wed, 24 Feb 1999
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 17:03:22 -0800
From: "William D. Tallman"
Subject: Re: Exegesis Digest V4 #16
> I think your "bomb" is a dud. And, too much emphasis on Cartesian
> cleverness makes man ill...like the otherwise desirable salt in one's food.
I think so too, but the majority of astrologers I've talked with consider it not only a bomb, but a rather deadly one as well. Cartesian cleverness is not a condiment, but a type of dish, I think. It is appropriate in it's place.
> As archetypal psychologist, James Hillman, says, we bridge the gap from
> invisible to visible by using Math, Music, and Myth. You want to use
> Math...fine; I want to use all of these...
So do I use each of these, but in their proper venue. The purpose of the discussion that I've initiated is probably more oriented to math than any of the others.
> I am moved by astrology to ask to
> see the myth of your individualism in the form of your chart. Surely you
> can see the role of the "fortunate accident" of the emphasis on intangible
> synchronicity in mine:
Noted with private response. I am reluctant to post my data on this list because it could promote ad hominem argument, which I would avoid if at all possible.
> It seems my purpose to advocate an abandonment of authoritarian
> quantities and the acceptance of the invisible numbers themselves for
> intellectual qualities that they are...naked emperors rapidly changing their
> garb as if to impress me with a ever expanding wardrobe, which my heart
> cannot see.
The heart is not the only aspect of a person to have eyes. Like the physical eyes, it too is limited in sensory bandwidth. The broader the bandwidth available to sensation, the greater the reality of that which is sensed. Certainly the heart holds a primary place in the human being, but it is not the totality thereof. I would think that the heart serves as the primary response check (it is not what entereth into the mouth of a man that despoileth him, but what issueth forth therefrom... as I recall). The naked emperors are not changing their garb to impress you, but to express their own changes, I think.
> Astrology is spawned by the desire to be a something of a wizard...The
> totally dependent creature that is a any prediction has always been an
> attempt to objectify that desire....astrological predictions can never been
> weaned, and these suck at the ego for life sustaining milk ...more often
> than not we indulge predictions only a mother could love. Intuitions are
> brilliant, vast, immediate, illuminations which are read by the intellect
> totally wrong 50% of the time.
Certainly astrologers were considered wizards or something of the sort, at least to the extent they were able to garner accurate information from their studies; the earliest ones tended to pay a heavy price for inaccuracy... they were summarily executed in some cases. I dunno who would want to be such a wizard. But you are very right that a significant number of astrologers practice for the purpose of demonstrating some superior knowledge, presumably hoping that it is taken as representative of superior character. I suspect most of these avoid prediction like the plague; any visible flaw is detrimental to their self-image, I suppose.
And of course there are many people who would give over responsibility for themselves to demonstrations of fate, such as an astrological prediction; but these people will give themselves over to any demonstration. Astrology is only one of many venues, religion and "revealed knowledge" being equally acceptable. It's observable that only the more dire predictions are found to be useful; positive predictions hold no real value as they don't tax the individual who would embrace them.
Now, intuition is *not* the same as prediction, although it can suppliment it. Many people have flashes of intuitive insight, and the efficacy of their usage thereof depends to a large degree upon the level of acceptancy. To the extent that intuitive insight is accepted, the frequency and extent thereof increases; to the extent they are refused and repressed, they tend to fade away. To the extent that experience with them tends to increase accuracy of interpretation, and it usually does, the 50% assumption is without foundation, I think.
The process of supplimenting astrological prediction with intuitive insight is probably quite common, but seldom used now because of the current attitudes towards prediction. Those who could do it with accuracy did so, and those who could not were eliminated from the marketplace. Again the 50% assumption does not hold up. In a controlled experiment, however, taking some selection of astrologers with no regard to any supposed ability to predict and running an experiment on their ability to do so will probably show up chance. The 50% idea concerns whether a completely definable matter can or cannot be.. what? recognized? 50% is relevant only to a true/false situation. Your point, I think, is that interpretation *without expertise* (ie, practice and success in doing so) is quite likely to achieve only chance results.
I think I'll expand on this in a following post. Rog makes really meaningful contributions here, whether or not he is pleased at doing so. < grin >
> Knowing I am an irrational being seems more important than attempting to
> prove that I am perfectly rational. I think to insist on Cartesian
> mechanisms, the physics of causes and such, is a labor which expresses the
> preference of the individual so inclined...it like everything else seems a
> "way" or "path" where to going is the goal, and the process is an end in
You are quite right, I think. The path is an expression of the individual who travels thereon. I hasten to state that I'm not dependent on des Cartes (sp?) for my mode of inquiry. I've been at pains to make it clear that I do not assume any point of view, or hold any expectations. I just want to know what is going on that makes astrology work, because it does so quite nicely and accurately for me; there are many others who can say the same. So if the path of investigation is an expression of me, that's probably appropriate.
And...... as the universe is infinite and there is no end or beginning, the path is all there is!
End of Exegesis Digest Volume 4 Issue 17
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